Trouble getting final set up right.
Hello – I’m new to this form and looking for some guidance to get my ride back in operation. My first build in about 40 yrs (kids, mortgage, job, etc – you get the idea) and already to go except can’t get fuel / ignition sorted out.
I have a 57 Chev 210 Post with a newly rebuilt 4 bolt 350, Edelbrock 7501 Air Gap intake, 10.5:1 comp, roller rockers, Howard perf cam (dur 269/279 - lift .455/.465), alum heads, Patriot headers, Muncie M21 4 spd, FITech Go EFI fuel system with timing control (#30002), Aeromotive Gen II tank w/ integral EFI fuel pump #18499.
New ignition system is - MSD pro billet mag distr #85551 (locked out) / MSD Blaster 3 coil #8223) / MSD adjustable rotor #84211 / Taylor plug wires (#74202) / Accel header plugs (#437S).
Think that covers the fun stuff and probably need to come out of retirement to pay for it all but so far having fun J.
I have the system installed and running – poorly.
Had a lengthy dialog with FiTech tech support to confirm my distr and adjustable rotor are all positioned correctly. According to them it’s good to go. Attached .pdf shows distr & rotor positioning based on:
- Motor is at 10 deg BTDC
- Distr base timing is set at 10.1 deg.
- The reluctor wheel is lined up to a pick up.
- The 10 deg phased (clockwise) rotor tip is just past (or maybe a small overlap) the corresponding cap terminal pin for #1 cyl.
- There's a black mark on the distr base showing where the #1 cyl terminal pin is on the cap.
- Timing between handheld and timing light is within 2 or 3 deg.
The last few outings the engine starts and runs smooth during warm up in the driveway. After several miles engine starts surging and hesitating even at steady speed - occasional stalling at a light and tough to re-start. Car's not drive-able in traffic. Seems to get worse with more miles driven. Feels like it's missing with backfires & pops in exhaust.
Really struggles going up hill.
It felt like a weak ignition coil breaking down under load even though the resistance test was fine. Just in case I replaced this 2 month old coil but - no change.
A bad ground seemed like a possibility so this week replaced neg ground cable between battery and engine (alt bracket) plus the smaller wire to a body ground. Also ran 16 ga wire between throttle body base and battery neg.
Total resistance from throttle body through neg battery terminal to body ground is about 0.5 ohms - a little less from Throttle body through battery term to engine grd.
Also have noticed that eng temp on handheld is a bit off and doesn't track my mech temp gauge. I've got a new AC Delco #213-928 temp sensor but haven't changed out yet. Not sure if this would affect my drive-ability issues.
Also noticed several 105 faults and 24 faults in most recent data logs. Sometimes together. I think 105 is O2 sensor (not sure) and not sure on 24 either - didn’t see them listed in fault codes.
If you’re still reading I commend and thank you. Any help you can provide would be appreciated. I have data logs from my recent drive where it was acting up in typical fashion.
Thanks
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For future reference providing actual data helps a lot in these situations. Don't necessarily need full datalog, but some numbers would be helpful.
The 24 code is a CTS code. Replace the sensor and reset the learn. Drive, watch data, and see if symptoms change.
Ok Thanks - I'll change out the coolant sensor then test drive again. Should I reset all learn or just the fuel learn?
Does the 105 fault provide any clues to my problems?
I have a data log file from yesterday but can't upload on to this message. What's best way to get to you?
Thanks again
You must share datalogs using Dropbox. Share, create Link, save to clipboard, paste on next post
But, I don't want to see a datalog until the CTS is replaced. It is a waste of time until we get the known issues fixed, then datalog.
Hello - Installed new CTS (plus pigtail - orig got damaged). Handheld temp is now closer to mech gauge and more stable.
Eng usually operates between 185 & 195 but did see handheld temp (data logged) go much higher than mech gauge a few times. Once was on second half of Dashboard1_2nd drive.csv when things were running very rough and other time was during initial warm up before 180 deg thermo opened. The mech temp sensor is in intake manifold and the FiTech sensor is in cyl head between #6 and #8. Could this be a sign of getting too much fuel causing localized heat to be generated temporarily? Temp goes back to normal soon after.
Dropbox link has 4 logs:
Dashboard1.csv / Ran but not well. Had temp rise at line 1467 to 1650 or so then returned to normal. Didn't notice mech gauge going up but if it did was no where near that level. Had a stall or 2. Some stalls I can recover from by popping the clutch when going around a corner so doesn't last long. Had some faults - 35, 105 and a few 55's. I think at line 3370 stalled at a traffic light and had to limp off to the side - all 3 faults show up there (line 3580 too).
Dashboard1_2nd drive.csv / Last half of this drive engine was really struggling plus had the temporary temp rise. Was very hard to start about 45 min later.
Soon after getting back from 2nd drive did 2 restarts which worked ok - was trying to simulate no start conditions. Seems to restart if you try within 15 min or so. Have these 2 logs as well if they'll help.
Dashboard4_45 min later no start.csv / Tried to start about 45 min after Dashboard1_2nd drive.csv drive and wouldn't go.
Dashboard5_2 hrs later started.csv / Did restart 2+ hrs later. A bit rough but started and ran.
Hope that helps
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3b7t3g0ksurxj7h/AAAWIm4dRx2E0Di5QGtcntW_a?dl=0
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Wow, that is a lot of data.
Before I try to read all that, what fuel system are you using. You may be experiencing lean condition due to vapor lock.
Hello and hope I didn't bury you. Fuel system is an Aeromotive GenII tank #18499 with a Stealth 340 pump, billet hat with 1/8 npt outlet and return ports. Comes pre assembled with pump installed in tank.
Used Vibrant SS braided flex hose (#11926) with AN 6 fittings (like #21906). Hose rated for -40 to 300 deg F with max 1000psi.
Hyper inline 30 micron EFI fuel filter about 10" ahead of FiTech TB. You can see it in photo if you zoom in a bit.
You can see a bit of the routing under the hood in above photo. Fuel lines go off towards pass side wheel well then down along inside of frame back to tank. Temp here is about 75 to 80 typically this time of year.
First let's turn off DFCO. Go to DFCO menu in Pro Tuning. Raise the enable temp to maximum. When you see the random 105 code, O2 sensor, it is when DFCO is enabled. Fuel is cut off, O2 readings go lean and you will probably hear some popping out the exhaust during deceleration. Can be a cause of stalling when stopping and lack of throttle response when getting back into it after coast.
Second, do you have a fuel pressure gauge? If not, check out the Fitech one I have listed on the Parts and Accessories post. I simply drill and tap a fuel rail plug. Simple and cheap. We want to maintain somewhere near 58psi. At idle it may be slightly less. This will give us a gauge to set your PWM on the fuel pump. I am assuming you ran the Orange wire directly to the pump, no relay. Bring the PWM down until you begin to lose fuel pressure at idle, then increase by 10. This slows the pump and reduces heat.
Ok great - I'll do DFCO adjust and let you know any change. Should I do another fuel learn reset before test ?
I don't have a fuel pres ga but will get one. The FiTech 80115 shows as currently unavailable on Amazon and FiTech lists a 80117 as 0-100 psi gauge. It's got a long lead time and not on Amazon so far.
My local speed shop has a similar one in stock from Redhorse Perf with same 1/8 NPT male fitting on back so suspect that will do the trick.
When you say "drill and tap a fuel rail plug" do you mean one of the 2 plugs on front of TB as shown here?
And yes - orange wire direct - no relay.
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Yes, that plug. As long as the gauge is over 60 psi, it will work.